Comments on: HTML 5 turns documents into applications http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/ XML, apiculture et pré-vergers Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:30:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Cristiano on Tech/Life » My Bookmarks For February 1st - February 6th http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-306 Cristiano on Tech/Life » My Bookmarks For February 1st - February 6th Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:27:04 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-306 [...] HTML 5 turns documents into applications - Interesting comparison between HTML5 and XHTML2. I am still in doubt about which of the 2 I like best. [...] [...] HTML 5 turns documents into applications - Interesting comparison between HTML5 and XHTML2. I am still in doubt about which of the 2 I like best. [...]

]]> By: Eric van der Vlist http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-257 Eric van der Vlist Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:10:07 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-257 Hixie: you're perfectly right, applications and documents are "extremes along a big spectrum" but that means that we have to keep a balance between these two and I am worried that HTML5 is not balanced enough. This is the most important point that I have covered in my post but there are a few others and I'll try to formalize each of them individually and submit them more formally to the HTML Working Group. Thanks for your answer! Eric Hixie: you’re perfectly right, applications and documents are “extremes along a big spectrum” but that means that we have to keep a balance between these two and I am worried that HTML5 is not balanced enough.

This is the most important point that I have covered in my post but there are a few others and I’ll try to formalize each of them individually and submit them more formally to the HTML Working Group.

Thanks for your answer!

Eric

]]> By: Ian Hickson http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-256 Ian Hickson Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:55:35 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-256 Would I be correct in summarising your complaint as a fear that HTML5 leads HTML to cater more for applications than documents? If so, then I think this is a misunderstanding. HTML5 does indeed cater for Web applications; that's a large part of its focus (the spec used to be called "Web Application 1.0" before the W3C renamed it). However, it also focuses on documents, for example with the introduction of a number of elements for marking up document semantics like <article>, <footer>, etc. If your fear is that HTML should not cater for applications at all, I think that ship sailed long ago. GMail, vBulletin, WordPress, etc, are just the tip of the iceberg. HTML has long been used for a wide spectrum of pages ranging from pure documents to pure applications with a lot in between. Earlier versions of HTML had forms; HTML5 is similarly making small steps to address the needs that authors have found while using HTML in that way. I think it's wrong to view Applications and Documents as opposites. They are merely labels for different extremes along a big spectrum. For example, is this blog page an application or a document? It's both, and so the underlying language should treat it as both. BTW, your input is very welcome, to both the HTML working group and the XHTML2 working group, both of which have charters allowing anyone to join. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ Would I be correct in summarising your complaint as a fear that HTML5 leads HTML to cater more for applications than documents?

If so, then I think this is a misunderstanding. HTML5 does indeed cater for Web applications; that’s a large part of its focus (the spec used to be called “Web Application 1.0″ before the W3C renamed it). However, it also focuses on documents, for example with the introduction of a number of elements for marking up document semantics like <article>, <footer>, etc.

If your fear is that HTML should not cater for applications at all, I think that ship sailed long ago. GMail, vBulletin, WordPress, etc, are just the tip of the iceberg. HTML has long been used for a wide spectrum of pages ranging from pure documents to pure applications with a lot in between. Earlier versions of HTML had forms; HTML5 is similarly making small steps to address the needs that authors have found while using HTML in that way.

I think it’s wrong to view Applications and Documents as opposites. They are merely labels for different extremes along a big spectrum. For example, is this blog page an application or a document? It’s both, and so the underlying language should treat it as both.

BTW, your input is very welcome, to both the HTML working group and the XHTML2 working group, both of which have charters allowing anyone to join. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/

]]> By: see whatever… » HTML5 or XHTML 2.0 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-254 see whatever… » HTML5 or XHTML 2.0 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:02:05 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-254 [...] interesing notes by Eric van der Vlist about HTML5 versus XHTML 2.0. I did not partake in the WHATWG (which would be an option - I know) nor do I know both specs in [...] [...] interesing notes by Eric van der Vlist about HTML5 versus XHTML 2.0. I did not partake in the WHATWG (which would be an option - I know) nor do I know both specs in [...]

]]> By: Eric van der Vlist http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-250 Eric van der Vlist Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:31:25 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-250 Gautier: content de voir que le plugin OpenId fonctionne bien! Merci pour ton commentaire. Gautier: content de voir que le plugin OpenId fonctionne bien! Merci pour ton commentaire.

]]> By: HTML5 IRC logs http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-249 HTML5 IRC logs Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:28:14 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-249 <strong>Thanks but no thanks...</strong> # [02:27] <Hixie> so i don't really understand what that article is saying, other than apologising for xml, except maybe that html5 should not define interop as much as it does # [02:27] <Hixie> in which case my response to that feedback would have to be "Thanks but no thanks". Thanks but no thanks…

# [02:27] <Hixie> so i don’t really understand what that article is saying, other than apologising for xml, except maybe that html5 should not define interop as much as it does

# [02:27] <Hixie> in which case my response to that feedback would have to be “Thanks but no thanks”.

]]> By: Gautier Poupeau http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-248 Gautier Poupeau Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:24:50 +0000 http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2008/01/31/html-5-turns-documents-into-applications/#comment-248 Merci Eric !! Tu fais les bons rappels au bon moment. HTML 5 est typiquement l'exemple de format de structuration de l'information mis au point par des informaticiens, c'est la cata... Il faudra que je réussisse à trouver le temps pour compléter tes propos sur l'idiotie des balises du type et autre , j'ai failli m'étrangler en lisant cela... Merci Eric !! Tu fais les bons rappels au bon moment. HTML 5 est typiquement l’exemple de format de structuration de l’information mis au point par des informaticiens, c’est la cata… Il faudra que je réussisse à trouver le temps pour compléter tes propos sur l’idiotie des balises du type et autre , j’ai failli m’étrangler en lisant cela…

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